This is not true. I have Win 10 Pro on my work laptop. It's very much "paid in full". Some of the things I paid in full for include Bubble Witch 3 Saga, Candy Crush Saga and Candy Crush Friends, and the Start menu came pre-populated with a bunch of ads for similarly useful apps (edit: among other things).
Edit: if someone who's more Windows-savvy than this ol' Unix nerd knows what information I ought to edit out of a screenshot so that I can safely share it, I have the screenshot, too. This "if you pay for Win 10 Pro there are no ads" crap pops up every single damn time so I took a screenshot of my laptop's untouched Win 10 Pro installation.
I also have Win 10 Pro and the maximum I had was, I think, "Install Minecraft" link or something. This is not like Win 10 Home where they tried to keep the ads coming. Which also makes sense, since you are getting a discounted OS.
Going along that route, there is a lot of stuff a default Linux installation bundles, that I don't personally need, so I usually have to do a custom install to have only the stuff I'm comfortable with. Throwing a fit that a product doesn't cater exactly to your particular interests is a bit entitled. You assume that most of Windows consumers don't want those things on their computer.
Who said anything about not catering exactly to my particular interests? You said a legit copy of Windows 10 Pro doesn't show ads. It does. I see them. Ads were some of the first things I saw after I installed it, and I still see them every once in a while. Even you seem to have seen one, even though you literally just said there aren't any.
You are deliberately conflating ads and suggestions. I don't see them and haven't seen them the 3 years I have my Surface Book with Windows Pro. Honestly, I don't remember what I did: either deleted the shortcuts or turned something off in settings. Maybe you should do that?
> You are deliberately conflating ads and suggestions.
Really? What's the difference? When I see nice, red, highlighted text saying "Try out the new Edge browser", should I think of it as "just a suggestion"? How is it different from one saying "Try out the new Coca-Cola"?
Well, as far as I remember, the suggestions in the start menu for me were implemented as .LNK files. Although I might be mistaken there, since I've encountered those years ago and never since. Obviously, in contrast to your experience, where by some mysterious, unfortunate circumstance and surely through no oversight of your own, you seem to be struggling with suggestions and/or ads (who knows which?) in your system on a daily basis, even though you seem to have a Win 10 Pro system.
In my experience, those links weren't intrusive, they weren't detrimental to my experience and I could get rid of them once and for all. And I'm pretty sure .LNK files don't track you if you don't call them.
So to answer your question, I draw the line at opt-out functionality.
> So to answer your question, I draw the line at opt-out functionality.
Great! So any idea how you can opt out? Last time I've seen one of these "suggestions" was one or two weeks ago, when I ended up with a big red "Still using Firefox? The new Edge version is here" entry in the Start menu.
What FUD? And what aversion to "googling stuff"? The Start Menu Personalization is only one of the ad delivery channels, and only one about which I (literally) forgot.
Do you still mean to say that there are no ads on a legitimately-purchased Windows 10 copy, after literally writing that you, yourself, have seen at least one?
Apparently when a GNU/Linux installation shows messages to try out stuff, it is "spreading the good for the community", or has a modified motd, when one gets a couple of links on the start menu, easily removed by right clicking on them, it is "bloody Microsoft".
The whataboutism defense is absolutely failing at this point. If there was material criticism on HN of say Ubuntu or other providers for the same stuff Microsoft gets criticized your words might've been credible. But there isn't and they are not.
Pretending to be fair and objective is not the same thing as being fair and objective.
Whataboutism is a logical fallacy even when the "what about" thing doesn't get enough attention. If Ubuntu got more criticism on HN, would the ads you see on Windows become less intrusive, or more appropriate?
But FWIW, Ubuntu absolutely got, and still gets, plenty of criticism for that, even here on HN.
Just like the "fallacy fallacy" is also a fallacy.
That's not the point I'm debating. Whether I'm OK with product design choices of Microsoft is my own consumer decision. But what really is getting old, is the utterly predictable and abysmal level of discourse on this matter on HN, Reddit or wherever.
My point is, that since the Internet has learned about whataboutism, it is being used to shut down any criticism of bias. In fact, your comment uses the common formula for that "Just because A does B, doesn't mean that C can do B."
Sure, but then your actions don't really correspond to your words. If you take the amount of privacy invasion in Android, for example, HN should be loosing their collective shit on a daily basis. They don't.
This is obviously just people emotionally bashing things they have been taught are outside of their "tribe".
I'm sorry but really none of this makes any sense to me.
How exactly did you reach the conclusion that "my actions don't really correspond to my words" based on how HN collectively treats Android? What actions are you talking about specifically? Using Android? I don't.
An how exactly does this post:
"I'm not sure how that's relevant here. Does my post say anything about what Ubuntu does being excusable in any way?"
follow this formula:
"Just because A does B, doesn't mean that C can do B."
My original reply said nothing about anything other than Windows, and my second post hinted that I think both Canonical and Microsoft are wrong in doing this. If I followed any formula, I'm pretty sure that's "neither A nor C should be doing B", which is as far removed from whataboutism as criticizing bias is removed from astroturfing.
> How exactly did you reach the conclusion that "my actions don't really correspond to my words" based on how HN collectively treats Android? What actions are you talking about specifically? Using Android? I don't.
I wasn't talking about you, the individual. It's a disembodied, collective "you" of HN. It's a rhetorical turn of phrase.
I don't know what to say to the rest. It's pretty obvious to me. If you don't get it, you don't get it.
Also, on astroturfing:
"Astroturfing is the practice of masking the sponsors of a message or organization to make it appear as though it originates from and is supported by grassroots participants."
When Ubuntu does it you will see a ton of complaining, like if it shows you some text and a link that you can disable easily and still people complain, I think people are consistent and you should consider that say Ubuntu is free and Canonical is not profitable where Microsoft is extremely rich and after you paid for the OS they still want to suck more money from you.
I will assure you that I seen it on HN(you can search and find proof you don't believe me), articles about the Amazon shortcut, about the SSH ads, about the Ubuntu/Fedora telemetry etc. Now probably Windows related news were submitted more often but this makes sense .
What version of Windows do people need to buy for it to (right after the installation, with no additional tweaking) have the telemetry keylogger turned off and no ads in start menu and no adware or links to other Microsoft's products there? I've been looking for such a version for a long time.
