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I never really used the Antigravity IDE, but had it installed. The update also made me do a double take and wonder what the hell was going on.

It seems like Google is hitting the reset button on the product they call "Antigravity", existing users be damned. Fine, if you've never installed or used the previous version before... but for existing users the "bait and switch" is incredibly disorientating.

My take is they saw the market size for a general agentic tool as being larger and more significant than a specialised IDE. It shows a pretty large lack of respect for users in the later group though.


You can't use Antigravity 2.0 on Windows with WSL. There is simply no way to connect to WSL. The agent can't run any Linux commands.

Also the Antigravity CLI doesn't remember your credentials in WSL. It asks you to log in every time you run the program.

And after 4 chat sessions, my ~/antigravity-server folder now takes up 4 GB.


It only stores credentials in the keyring, so if you have no dbus keyring service running it just silently won't remember them.

Should be usable with ssh port forwarding?

They could just call it anything else and left the existing user alone. I mean they have gemini CLI, which I would say a better product.

Gemini CLI is being sunsetted in mid-June and replaced by Antigravity.

https://developers.googleblog.com/an-important-update-transi...


I've mostly avoided the frustration of dealing with google's product rug pulls over the years by never getting hooked on a non-gmail product.

Alas, I now feel the sting of disappointment.


Belated follow up: I was able to install the agy cli directly without the IDE (perhaps this was a change made in the interim).

I ran it last night and it was just fine as a drop-in replacement for my usage. Disappointment averted with minimal effort on my part (it helps that my typical workflow is pretty mundane/close to the defaults).


In this case it's the usual Google product rug-pull plus the insane rate of AI tool churn.

I assume this means a CLI tool is no longer covered by a Gemini subscription?

> I mean they have gemini CLI

Uhhh, about that :)

Gemini CLI (the open source cli) is being deprecated, and the recommended replacement is Antigravity CLI (which supposedly comes with the new Antigravity, not the IDE). shrug. Surely this will be maintained long term...


Google makes no sense. They can make a good product from time to time but as soon as people like it, they shut it down. for me personally (google podcasts, google calendar with the goals feature) the old assistant that was able to do stuff like set alarms and gemini now can't

Oh, but you can only install the new antigravity CLI by first installing and authenticating via the IDE.

Will they make it work headless before the June deadline when they turn off gemini-cli? I guess we'll see...

[Edited to add: danielbln below is correct, this appears to just be stale documentation for antigravity-cli, it can be used completely headless now.]


There's a link on the downloads page to a standalone version of the CLI

Just today I installed the CLI version of antigravity (agy) and have been using it as a headless subagent from within Claude, so uh this works today?

And how do you get this to work exactly? I keep getting variations of "Missing required parameter: redirect_uri" in the OAuth flow.

The solutions proposed by Gemini and Google's AI summaries all hallucinate agy subcommands that don't exist, hilariously.

Edit: after bouncing around several GitHub threads, I realized that the agy TUI framework is wrapping the URL in a way that causes spaces to be inserted where the URL wraps. That's hilarious.


Right above the CLI download link on that page, there's a warning icon with "Authenticate with Antigravity or Antigravity IDE before using the CLI."

Ok, I guess this is outdated then because I did what I said I did.

Ah!

You're right, I just re-tested on my server and was able to get it to work now. Thank you! Does appear to just be stale documentation.


I think that's what everyone is going to think.

Hot take: At least they're ripping the bandaid now instead of stringing users along and eventually abandoning it like they normally do.


That's the issue with Google, no specific user group is significant enough for Google to care

Classic Google problem: nobody gets promoted for maintaining anything. Promotions require doing Something Big. Convince everybody that your new feature is so much better than the old experience that it’s worthy of nuking the old experience, and that’s evidence that your New Thing is more worthy of you getting promoted. That’s how shit like this happens at Google.

Sometimes I wonder if they even realize they have users...

Jules is still alive.

https://jules.google.com


>Note on Plan Availability

>Paid Jules plans are accessed via a Google AI Plans subscription, which is currently available only for individual Google Accounts (ending in @gmail.com).

>We are actively working on providing upgrade paths for other user types. In the meantime, If you are a business power user and need more access to Jules, please fill out this interest form and we will get back to you.

I filled out the enterprise form for GWorkspace 18 months ago.


Which somewhat ironically can import from github but not directly from aistudio..

It's a little crazy they still depend on microsoft as an intermediate between all their tools.


This is what happens when your engineering company is run by warring factions of tech illiterate business people rather than engineers.

when people start to use it more they will shut it down

I trie to use it, it's actually really bad IMO. It's very slow and often completely misunderstands my requirements

> Jules is not yet available in your region.

Pissing off the segment of people most likely to take offense and try to take revenge seems pretty dumb.

No wonder they are losing massively to Huawei in several markets. Mobile marketshare is probably an indicator of some kind of their future prospects.


> Mobile marketshare is probably an indicator of some kind of their future prospects.

I don't like Google either, but I don't think this is a fair comparison.

It's easy for anyone to beat Google in China when the state has decided to block their servers.


They are declining in market share in several countries. Notably multiple ASEAN countries, Russia and Iran (though that is forced), and so on.

Edit: Probably the high end non apple market in nearly all African countries too, but idk if there is reliable data for those.


It appeals to me as a minimalistic version of the Bear[1] notes app.

A few years ago I played around with copying the Bear app interface for the web, the idea was to create a visually identical mockup of the app so you could immediately visualise changes made when customising various theme values. I stalled with the implementation of the last part, but the rest of it is up at bear.christippett.dev

[1] https://bear.app


Similarly I remember being at Australia Post discussing data privacy for a project and I couldn't help but make the wisecrack remark "don't y'all routinely distribute millions of individual's personal data every year and just leave the information lying about on people's doorstops for anyone to access?"


Black Mirror's Waldo anyone?

  > Appearing as Waldo via video screens on the side of a van, Jamie goads Monroe into confrontation as he campaigns [for political office].

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Waldo_Moment


Am I correct that this has come about because archive.org respects robots.txt and these sites have blocked their crawler from indexing their sites?

I'm not sure how to articulate my thoughts on this exactly, other than to say it's disappointing that doing the right thing (i.e. respecting robots.txt) is rewarded with the burden of soliciting responses to a petition while at the same time others are rewarded with profit for ignoring those same directives.


Don't know if it helps your musings at all, but there's a good chance that if a high-profile crawler like archive.org disrespected their robots.txt, that archive.org would be faced with lawsuits (or some other form of pressure). This is not merely the most moral move; rather it is the only sensible move.

The only reason "others are rewarded with profit" in cases like these are because pinkie-promise-style obligations don't affect players too small or shadowy to bother litigating.


>pinkie-promise-style obligations don't affect players too small or shadowy to bother litigating

I think you're looking at the wrong end of the spectrum there. It's some of the biggest players who flaunt the rules.

"Several AI companies said to be ignoring robots dot txt exclusion, scraping content without permission: report" (2024) https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/artificial-intell...


Fair point. Being small and shadowy is a sufficient condition to avoid litigation, but not a necessary one. Another sufficient condition is having billions of dollars to throw around. Unfortunately, archive.org is well known, well loved, and fundamentally harmless.


> fundamentally harmless.

This is going to go in a boring direction with an argument thread that's been made since Internet time immemorial, and before. The argument goes: Pirating articles off nyt.com leads to lost sales of subscriptions, so it's not harmless. The response is, inevitably, no it doesn't, it leads to more sales. Or, people who weren't going to pay weren't going to pay anyway, so might as well give it to them for free, and be happy (as the NYT) for free advertising. And then the follow up, "No, it's a lost sale and journalism needs the money." HN is for thoughtful and substantive discussion, not for rehashing the same boring argument we've all read a thousand times. So my question isn't which camp is right. Both camps are firm in their beliefs. Copyright infringement is fine, copyright infringement is not. My question is in today's AI-fueled digital hellscape, how do we support journalists and the arts? If journalism only exists because eg Jeff Bezos pays for the Washington Post, we're going to get biased reporting (which has existed since long before the Internet); If art only exists because the artists come from rich families or have patrons like the Renaissance era, is society better off?


Side note: You probably mean "flout" instead of "flaunt."


But AI companies don’t publicly redistribute the content they scrape, whereas Internet Archive does.

Even if you believe what the AI companies are doing is or should be a copyright violation, the Internet Archive is redistributing in a more direct manner.


Correct. Example snippet from the nytimes.com robots.txt:

    User-agent: archive.org_bot
    Disallow: /


Which they don’t respect. I’ve had it for my blog for years and they still added it to wayback machine, see my last comment for their official announcement of the ignore robots.txt policy, it is not new.


robots.txt means they shouldn't auto-scan your site. Any user though can go to the wayback machine and type in a URL and the wayback machine will read that URL. That was the intent of robots.txt (don't scan) not (don't read period). It's spelled out in the spec for robots.txt


The <meta name="robots"> tag and robots.txt serve different roles: robots.txt controls crawling, while the robots meta tag influences indexing and other behavior. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Reference/...

I wonder how archive.org_bot behaves when <meta name="robots" content="noindex, noarchive, nocache" /> is present.


The person above those is complaining about entries in their logs from bots. A robot can't read a tag without first reading the document. So sure, if they're a good bot they might not store the results but the server's logs will still show the bot's GET request.


> I’ve had it for my blog for years

Just out of curiosity, why don't you want your public blog archived? not questioning, just trying to understand the logic/motivations?

Also, I think you're being unfairly downvoted.


Is there a difference between that and User-agent: ia_archiver ?


That was operated by Alexa Internet and the results powered the Internet Archive (same founder) presumably until their acquisition: https://web.archive.org/web/20140528103516/https://alexa.zen...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexa_Internet


No, archive.org does NOT respect robots.txt. You need to reach out to them directly and ask your site not be included: https://blog.archive.org/2017/04/17/robots-txt-meant-for-sea...


Aren't you choosing to ignore something very specific specified in that article? Why do you make it seem that article implies it's their overall policy?

> A few months ago we stopped referring to robots.txt files on U.S. government and military web sites for both crawling and displaying web pages (though we respond to removal requests sent to info@archive.org).


> Aren't you choosing to ignore something very specific specified in that article?

Of course not, did you ignore the lines right after? “As we have moved towards broader access it has not caused problems, which we take as a good sign. We are now looking to do this more broadly.”

The announcement is from 9 years ago. I already mentioned they ignored the robots.txt for my own blog.


I'd rather they disregard robots.txt than the opposite situation, where someone does not use robots.txt on a domain to allow IA to archive it, then for whatever reason the domain lapsed and got swooped up by a parker who then subsequently adds a robots.txt blocking IA from the whole site, which would have then caused IA to remove all historical archives of that domain from public view.


Hiding old archives when robots.txt changed was a problem Internet Archive created and could have fixed any time.

It's because they want to restrict AI companies from stealing content, but they can't do it if internet archive proxies it all for them.

All of the LLMs would be massively less useful if it wasn't for scraping the latest news.


LLMs have other ways of accessing the content, they don’t need the Web Archive.

Every LLM company can afford to spin up a new subscriber account every day, proxying to appear different IPs from all sorts of ASNs, do some crawling until the account gets banned, and then do it again, and again, and again.


> LLMs have other ways of accessing the content, they don’t need the Web Archive.

What's the conclusion from this train if thought? Just because some burglars can pick locks doesn't mean you should leave your front door unlocked.

Locking a door (or robots.txt) is how one can establish mens rea for those who bypass the barrier.


This is like arguing that services can't provide access to libraries that provide public WiFi because it would give the public legal permission to pirate TV shows. They're two unrelated things. And then some members of the public argue that they're making fair use rather than pirating anything, but that still has nothing to do with the library.


But as I understand it, the Web Archive does respect robots.txt, while LLM scrapers absolutely do not and use all sorts of dodgy methods to get around it already...

The actual root cause is that we're allowing LLM companies to completely disregard copyright laws for their profit. Whether the LLM companies scrape the Web Archive or the original source doesn't change the copyright infringement implications in any way, and cutting off the web archive doesn't practically change anything (because as I understand, LLM scraping is already prolific all over the web).


Internet Archive do not respect robots.txt now. Or not consistently.

The legal implications would be different vs scraping publicly available content.


Is there a case that actually says this? Why would whether something is fair use depend on that? For that matter, how would they even show that a given AI model was trained on something from a recursive crawler rather than the same articles added to the training data after being downloaded by hand?


There was a similar case where a web scraper was bypassing prevention mechanisms on linked in

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HiQ_Labs_v._LinkedIn


That case is why Twitter, and anyone else with lawyers paying attention went and put content behind a login wall.


Twitter griefs everyone with a login wall because they want bulk downloaders to pay for API access instead and the login wall is an attempt to rate limit non-API bulk requests.

That isn't relevant to ordinary media outlets because a) they don't have enough content volume for rate limiting to be effective since it's possible to get everything they publish even at a slow rate limit, and b) getting AI scrapers to subscribe to their bulk download API instead is not the objective in their case.


That case seems to imply the opposite?


LLMs would then license content from news orgs and other publishers, which is what should happen.


"stealing" is BS because the original still exists. Copyright infringement is more correct.


You can call it whatever you want but it’s killing journalism when LLMs can automatically scrape and reword all the news. Sucking up the profits without contributing anything back to the people who created the work.


I don’t think many people are getting daily news from LLMs. Journalism has been dying since long before LLMs burst onto the scene as well.

There really isn’t even a defensible argument as to how this even should be illegal. The idea that someone can read words about a concept, and then rewording an explanation of that concept somehow violating the rights of the original author, is absurd.

The issue here and elsewhere isn’t LLMs. It’s that IP as a concept has always been a dystopic farce. Despite this we have not only kicked the can down the road on addressing this, we’ve doubled and tripled down and built our society around the concept. The advent of AI has simply blown the scale of the problem up to the point where it cannot be ignored any longer.


> I don’t think many people are getting daily news from LLMs.

How many people do you think use LLMs in some fashion at all in their daily lives? Genuine question, I'm sure my personal experience is a biased sample, but so is everyone else's. Stats from AI companies isn't going to be (seen as) objective either. OpenAI and Anthropic are pushing a feature where I get a situation report at 9am like I'm an important official. With both labs pushing that, I think some people are getting their daily news from LLMs, the question is how many would it take for it to be meaningful, and how would we know if/when that bar gets crossed? What are the implications of that?


The general problem here is that as soon as something is news, there will be not only numerous articles about it from multiple publications but also discussion of it on social media.

Which means LLMs have a zillion sources to get the story. Removing any given subset isn't going to prevent it from having the information in the training data, all it does is prevent that subset from being archived for future humans.


they're stealing page views


It's the same idiocy that DRM created.

Be a pirate, because a pirate is free...


I agree! A refreshing interlude to the cybersecurity postmortems and corporate layoff news.


Fish shell has builtin[1], although sudo is not one of the commands it covers.

[1] https://fishshell.com/docs/current/cmds/builtin.html


Yeesh, is "never reading the code" really the modus operandi we want from AI?

Microsoft, for all their warts, at least had the compassion to call their AI product "Copilot", suggesting we have some residual agency in whatever it is that it produces.


Copilot is a legacy brand from 2021 (anyone remembers it's free beta? good times) when it was just a rudimentary autocomplete powered by GPT-3. I don't think it aligns with Microsoft's views and priorities now.


It's clearly not the MO that capable engineers want, but it's the MO that is getting funded right now.

Reading code carefully is harder than writing code unless the code is written consistently and clearly in a way that is idiomatic to the reader. And there's way more code to review now, but companies aren't scaling up the number of skilled engineers on staff. So in practice, never reading all of the diffs is the MO that will be built into code we depend on.


> It's clearly not the MO that capable engineers want, but it's the MO that is getting funded right now.

Quite a few capable engineers really are that short-sighted!

The bigger question for the AI-techbro questioning "If AI writes your code, why use Python?" is "If AI writes your code, what use do we have for you?"

After all, there's dozens of people in the same business that have better domain knowledge but are unable to program - as a programmer the only value you added over random analysts and clerks was that you could automate shit.

Now you can't, so good luck competing with people who were already making half your salary when your largest value-prop is now gone.


There are lots of good use cases for vibe coding (”never reading the code”), prototypes, various explorations and one-offs. I’ve done various kinds of migrations where I didn’t bother to review the code much, just the output.

Possibly also some user-facing tools with a limited task and runtime environment.

Incidentally, these are all use cases where performance isn’t critical, typically, so you might as well write them in Python or Typescript or whatever makes most sense for the task.

Real production code? Yeah, you still need to be able to read it and understand it.


You don’t need to read the code if you have a robust test suit to validate the output. The article implies testing is the new “reading”. If I spend 10 minutes reading code to find an edge case bug, I have lost the benefit of using AI. AI code is legacy code the moment is generated because I can’t tell why some lines were chosen, so the only way for me to add more features or refactor legacy code is by being very rigorous with testing.


Let's say you get access to a microservice from another team in the company. Do you read through and audit every line of code?

What if it's from an external vendor? A 3rd party SaaS?

At which point do you stop caring about reading every line of code you run?


This is perhaps where our perspectives differ, because I see the usage of LLMs not as an external third-party (another team per your example), but instead as an extension of one's self. Given that lens, I'm highly sensitive to the quality and function of its output, because ultimately its contribution is my responsibility.

I appreciate not everyone feels this way, but that's why I personally would be anathema not to read its code.


My philosophy is just to Duck-type the program: "If it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, then it must be a duck"

I don't care if the duck is wet spaghetti inside, it does what I need it to do within the parameters I can measure.

If it fails to quack or walk later on, I have production alerts for that and I'll deal with it then.


I have zero expectation that any design tool will export concise and optimal SVG markup.

I highly recommend using SVGO (https://svgo.dev/).


> For instance, the name "www.nytimes.com" corresponds to nine different computers that answer requests for The New York Times on the Web, one of which is 199.181.172.242

  $ dig -x 199.181.172.242 +short
  www2.nytimes.com.
Neat.


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