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IMHO touchscreens in cars are the beginning (or perhaps a continuation) of the crapification and tiktok-ization of this entire product category.

I remember once driving, I think a Renault Megane, which had all the controls (stereo, climate, etc) replicated as buttons on (behind) the steering wheel. A slight learning curve, but completely seamless driver-car integration once learned. Someone had obviously thought carefully about how this should work, instead of just slapping in a touchscreen and a bunch of menus.



It's called ergonomics [1].

The "crapification" you describe is the creep away from the scientific principles that once underpinned this field. Before UX we had HCI (Human Computer Interaction) which was in turn a development of CE (Cognitive Ergonomics) and other "human factors" sciences.

These sciences were rooted in very rigorous but time consuming tests, observation, psychology and physiology.

from TFA: "Designers want a "clean" interior with minimal switchgear"

This is where the wheels fall off the wagon. Should "what designers want" be high amongst the priorities for safety critical products?

[1] https://iea.cc/what-is-ergonomics/


> from TFA: "Designers want a "clean" interior with minimal switchgear"

Speaking as someone with an Interaction Design (IxD) degree: no we fucking don't. Tactile buttons being superior has been known for ages. For example, Bret Victor wrote "A Brief Rant On The Future Of Interaction Design" in 2011, so over a decade ago[0]. Not that anyone with the power to change things listened, because these decisions aren't made by the designers.

This is mostly a consequence of people higher up trying to save costs by using touchscreens, which is cheaper to buy and cheaper to develop for. HCI and IxD have always had this issue that we're asked to fix things up after everything else has already been decided. Basically, we're mistaken for graphic designers who decide on what the final product will look like. So we're given a touchscreen to develop an interface for, not a blank-slate car interior (or whatever) for which we get to decide the button layout.

At the risk of pulling a "no true Scotsman", this is a consequence of cost-cutting first and foremost. Don't blame the people who actually have a background HCI or Interaction Design. We all knew this was coming, and we hated it. If we're told to make do with the touchscreens we are given, with the alternatives of actual physical buttons being ignored before we even get to make decisions, then don't blame us for the lack of those buttons.

[0] http://worrydream.com/ABriefRantOnTheFutureOfInteractionDesi...


Bret Victor article is very good. Thanks for sharing.

Some remarks stood out for me:

> talk about technology. That's the easy part, in a sense, because we control it. (my emphasis)

Yes, I agree with him strongly. But - there's been a dreadful anti-intellectual tide this past decade - a descent into "technological determinism", or the idea that technology is its own process to which humans must bend. It's the idea that we don't control it. It comes along with the overuse of words like "inevitable", "ubiquitous", "unavoidable" and endless talk of cats escaping from bags and genies refusing to go back into bottles. It's a defeatist and lazy creed that seeks to excuse a race to the bottom of cheapness, as you describe, with a narrative about how we "have no choice".

> if a tool isn't designed to be used by a person, it can't be a very good tool, right?

Increasingly, tools are designed to be used by other tools. Humans are being sidelined amidst the interplay between machines. For example; the demise of the Web is largely due to bots and the arms race to create other gatekeeping bots to defeat them.

> Hands

Bravo! Not "a finger" or "your thumbs". That's why I use a keyboard, interact through text-based technology, and cannot fathom thumb-twitching smartphone users. I totally get what he's saying, having worked in sonic interaction design with musical instruments (NIME) stuff like the ROLI seaboard (or whatever they changed the name to)... hands and touch, with mechanical haptic feedback is the way to go.

I wish more people payed attention to this understanding of our relation to technology as embodied beings, instead of chasing a "clean" disembodied dream - which I think hides within sublimated Orthodox Dualism in the tech community - but that's another story.


By "designers" I don't think they mean interaction designers.


Fair enough, but even then it's blame-shifting away from the actual cause of the problems.

I don't think we're going to get physical interfaces back until car manufacturers (or whatever) are forced to because of said cost-cutting.


Most executives don't have the vision or creativity to come up with these trends; they have to pick them up from somewhere. I think there's plenty of blame to go around though.


The trends adapt to the requirements of the customer. See also: the appeaiance desktop interfaces having phone interfaces that don't fit desktop affordances at all.

Note that "customer" can be a manager or similar higher up in the hierarchy.


How are touchscreens cheaper? On my phone replacing the screen costs way more than replacing a physical button.


The cost of fixing hardware failure in a final product is not the same thing as the cost of developing and mass-producing the product.

For example, we're not talking about one button, we're talking about a lot of buttons, usually custom-made for the car in question. The whole dashboard physically has to be designed around them. Meanwhile Tesla just slaps a screen on a mount in the middle of the car and calls it a day. It's basically "we have to get everything right the first time" vs "fuck it, we can always fix things in a later software update". Which is a way to save costs by cutting corners.

The buttons all have their own complicated logic too, although I suppose that even with physical buttons one can handle almost all of that purely through software these days, so that's not really as much of an issue any more as it used to be (it does make me terrified that cars can be hacked and bricked, but I digress).

Speaking of a lot of buttons, that's the other thing: if all your buttons are virtual, you can have infinite buttons! The only thing we have to do is introduce a ton of mode switches! Which is absolutely terrible when you're driving, but nobody seems to care! So we can cram a ton of features into a screen that would otherwise require a million buttons, and use that in marketing. Even though we'd probably be better off if some time was spent to whittle things down to the essentials and design the interface around those cleanly.


Many buttons also means many more pieces to physically install, and many many more wires. And each one (or small cluster) is often accompanied by even more independently-wired small information displays (small LCDs and LEDs for showing the state / temperature / etc) which are yet more wires.

A touchscreen is largely just a single fused physical unit with ~two cables: a data ribbon and power. Utterly trivial to install and wire up in comparison.

The total assembly cost adds up very quickly.


I have a bachelor's and master's in Industrial Design. When I first entered the software industry after grad school in 2000 a master's was the floor for work in UI Design or Information Architecture (Ux wasn't a job title at this time). Many of the people I worked with in these early days were CogPsy PhDs. Design was slow and methodical. This seemed to hold true for the next decade or so. As design as a competitive advantage (or necessity) started to take hold more and more people flocked to Ux. Many in the field today are self-taught, attended bootcamps, or pivoted away from graphic design (thanks Dribble) to Ux. Did we lose something when many Ux practitioners no longer have roots in HCI, library sciences, human-computer interaction, industrial design, human factors? I'm not going to judge. Myself, I transitioned from Ux to programming.


Yes, if designers are component at all of these things:

> tests, observation, psychology and physiology

Is that not their job?


No it's not their job, and I'll try to explain why I think that.

Apart from the remit being just too broad, designers in any case are part of a complex team that deal with a multitude of functional, non-functional, regulatory and financial requirements.

Now, we have many different definitions of "designer", which I am very aware of, but I believe that, in some circles "designer" has become romanticised and extended to include a set of perceived "magical" powers to "deliver what a boss wants". That is a distortion of the role to something grotesque.

Speaking from a domain in which I have expertise; in sound design a great battle ensued between designers, users (audiences) and the 'bosses' (studios and publishers) as to how music and films should sound. You probably know this as the "Loudness Wars". I think it remains a textbook example of misalignment between technical, artistic and financial factors. It also remains an example of why I think "Markets are a myth" [2].

Despite listeners saying over and over that they "Don't want it", the producers, through a mess of internal motives (mainly financial), repeatedly foisted their values onto them, being obsessed with what they think users want in preference to flat-out contradiction that would be evident in even the most cursory market research.

The job of a designer is to balance factors, and in a sense act as an advocate (stand-in) for the user by mentalising their actual needs. It's a very demanding and complex skill. Doing "what your boss says" is absolutely not it and reduces a designer to a tool.

On the other hand, a job of the designer is also to listen to expert technical advice outside of their skill-set, and so must not get carried away with any grand "aesthetic vision", wanting to be Steve Jobs.

A hard line to tread, and one requiring strong will and ethics as well as judgement.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/context?id=32463541


Related, the challenges sound designers face in making dialogue audible. What seem like simple problems (make car climate control buttons easy to use, make the speech in a movie easy to understand) turn out to be incredibly complex.

https://www.slashfilm.com/673162/heres-why-movie-dialogue-ha...


It's supposed to be their job - lots of "designers" nowadays seem mostly focused on aesthetic trends rather than those (IMO) more important things


Just look at Windows 11 to see how far removed designers can be from users, despite probably seeming quite competent.


I like Windows 11!


Genuinely curious, what do you like about it compared to Win10?

I've only tried it in a VM for a few minutes so far, but was unnerved by the general feeling of 'pretty, but impractical', mainly thanks to the taskbar and the right-click 'hide everything by default' context menu.


Is that not their job?

Evidently not if the work they're producing is reportedly outperformed by old school physical controls from more than a decade ago and in most of the vehicles tested it wasn't even close.


One problem is that 'aesthetics', both graphical and functional, dominates actual usability design.


I worked briefly as a freelance experience designer hired by an appliance manufacturer. I asked if they could send me physical prototypes of controls so they could be tested. They refused and said it would be too expensive. They expected the controls to be designed, spec'd, and sent to the factory without any usability testing.

Designers can do all those things, but often they're not given the space to.

The best products are typically produced in an environment where the people running the company care about the design. This is a rare environment.


Many, but not all, designers are just making their boss happy.


This is it 1000% - touchscreens look cool in "demos" and "show the CEO" and so they're selected for.

Buttons and actual things that let you use the device/vehicle for 8+ hours a day, not so selected for.


Often they recruit kids with graphic arts backgrounds, hand them some fancy post-it notes and a YouTube video of how Zipcar did a journey map, and set them loose.

UX usually focuses on the critical path for the top-5 tasks. So turning on the car radio makes sense, but changing the radio station didn’t make the cut, so some rando engineer guy stuffed it in a menu.

When it’s done well with a great team and time it’s magic. It’s easiest to see when Apple gets software right, like Keynote - the functions of making a presentation are immediately obvious to an elementary school student. But even then, once you leave the happy path, woe to you - modifying a template is a dark art to most people.


Or you could use Apple's iTunes as an example of how to build one of the world's worst and most user-hostile interfaces, but one that every iPhone user must deal with unless they let Apple have complete access to all their information via iCloud.

I'm convinced most people really don't like iCloud, but since the alternative is iTunes, they basically have no choice...


Agreed - I should have used a different example, as Apple is too visceral for many people.

iTunes is the equivalent of legacy VB apps in enterprises. As far as I can tell, there was essentially no design for many years.


My car radio is completely unusable. I had it for 2 years and never figured out how to tell it to just play everything on the usb. Instead it groups by artist or genre and only plays that.

Eventually the usb port just stopped working so I use VLC on the phone and stream to the car via bluetooth.


I wish I knew what the designers/engineers were thinking when they created the ability to play music from a USB drive. It feels like their target audience is not the type of person that would put music on a USB drive for the car.

I just want it to recognize that I sort my music into folders and show the folder hierarchy. Instead, in my last car, it would flatten the entire structure and then sort by filename. To top off the shitshow, it would also only show up to 99 files, and scrolling through the list was painful. Each tap on the scroll button would only move one line, not one page, so if I wanted to play the 80th song, I'd have to tap to scroll 80 times.


What kind of a monster has more than 99 songs?


Bluetooth in cars is often itself a shitshow, however. You are lucky it does not replicate all the anti-usability features of the USB interface.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32162131


This has been an issue for car radios playing digital media ever since it became available though.


so you have a tesla too?

seriously though, the USB audio player is a dumpster fire. They completely redid it with the last update -- and it got worse, not better.

some random examples off the top of my head: - switch to another input source and you lose your audiobook position - sorting is completely utterly broken - audiobook has no skip-back-a-little function - soooo many bugs

The only nice things I could say is that it mounts linux filesystems plus it plays FLAC and Apple lossless directly.


Wtf does it have to do with TikTok?


Just someone getting older and repeating the ancient mantra of "things are getting worse! because children are not educated the way they used to be".


Sounds like someone doesn't know what 'better' actually means.


It's more of an alias for the zeitgeist.


It's the current Boogeyman.


Gosh darn KIDS these days TICK TOKING all the DARN time, back in MY day we'd just PLANK on RANDOM THINGS then hit the WHIP and yell YEET and post it on INSTAGRAM for LIKES.


You'll see.

Now, you control your car, though with increasing friction.


I see the analogy. TikTok has streamlined the consumption UI to the point where your control is extremely rudimentary -- you like it or don't. The car makers are doing the same, to some degree -- you follow the 95% use case or you experience pain. I had a rental car last weekend for 4 days. I turned on the radio and didn't like the station. I tried to figure out how to tune a different station and couldn't, so I just turned it off. Perhaps they should switch to a model where they just play me random music and I say "yes" or "no" until they learn how to train me what to like.


Yes, and just wait until they turn on ads. You know it's coming. 'Two for one cupcakes this hour only at Let them Eat Cake!, coming up on our left in 30 seconds. Pull over Yes/No?'. Etc.


I say we go full tiktok and have the car just shove cupcakes in your face. If you swat it away, it tries other foods. If you accept it, more cupcakes.


Absolutely nothing. The problem existed before TikTok.


Yes! I want a car interface designed by whoever is responsible for vim.


When I read your comment, I immediately thought of a car which you exit by removing the floor plating, after which the car lifts itself up, so you can comfortably step away from the underside. Can't wait to see my grandma try that!


Oh hey, this reminds me of a car I saw. Thankfully did not have to ride it. The floor on passenger side was missing and it was a bit lifted , so you could get out the car that way. Was handy because sometimes the door lock got jammed and refused to work. Same goes for the meatgrinder-style window controls.

Other than that - it worked and somehow had all the needed papers to be street-legal.


It's all fun until someone else tries to quit your car.


"Sir, can you please explain what you were doing when the accident occurred?"


"I just thought I was in INSERT mode"


I accidentally had caps lock on, sorry.


Impossible, caps lock should be mapped to ESC


Isn't this what Tesla's electronic door handle is all about while the car burns?


What do you mean someone else? What about me!

Alternatively, what do you mean, quit?


Its a joke, because vim is so difficult to exit from.


wooosh!


Like Hotel California


So only professional drivers can turn off their cars? :-)


I learned that when the touchscreen starts flickering, it means the alternator has shorted out and you've got only a few miles before the car goes dead.


A voltmeter would tell me the same thing, but modern cars seem to have replaced them with a touch screen.


This started years ago, my example is the transformation of the Jeep CJ into the wrangler. CJ were fairly cheap, worked fine and came with no frills (I won't talk about rust). The wrangler is an overglorified SUV. When that happened, I went to regular automobiles, which are now getting harder to find these days.


I can understand where you're coming from, but compared to the vehicles I own now my 98 TJ seems "no frills".

The soft top folded down pretty nicely. The rear seat could also fold down, as did the windshield. The half doors were still removable, and there were still only 2 of them.

It was a manual transmission but had A/C. The heater had two settings: "lava" and "off" :D


My cars heater started bellowing hot steam into my car through the vent system a few weeks ago. I took it to a friend who is mechanic and asked how much it was to fix it. He said "we live in the tropics, what would you use a heater for?", then disconnected it completely and charged me a beer.

Very unrelated.


> crapification and tiktok-ization

I think Apple's design choices provide a better analogy but the point is still taken and I tend to agree. They want cars to be disposable technology that consumers are continuously upgrading (like their phone)


One change is that a car ceases to be an 'object' (to show off), or a 'tool' (to get you to work), and becomes an 'experience'; of course, controlled by corporations.


This is what happens when Ivy League MBAs run every industry


Really, these people are poison to engineering culture, and once that deteriorates, the company soon follows. Look at Palm, HP, Intel, I'm sure there are numerous others.


Sounds like the car equivalent of HOTAS.




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